Author Topic: Custom Hero Class: Brawler  (Read 10662 times)

CarelessOpossum

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Custom Hero Class: Brawler
« on: April 26, 2014, 12:15:31 PM »
The Brawler

A melee fighter that specializes in hand-to-hand combat using fist weapons, as well as kicks, and strength based moves. It is mobile, and has the potential for versatility via it's Chain Attack system.

Brawler's Base 25-Card Deck

Fist Weapons Needed to Play Brawler

Hero Stats:



Similar to other classes; however the Brawler is adept at weaponless fighting. Therefore, it starts with a base of 2d10.


Class Mechanic:  Chain Attacks



This icon indicates that the card is eligible to be part of a Chain Attack.

It is found in this location on cards:



The Symbols relate to the following attack types:

O = Opener
L  = Link
F  = Finisher

Symbols in black are the types that a particular card is eligible for. Faded out symbols are not types that the card is eligible for, yet they are present to represent the flow of an Attack chain.  In the above example, Lunge is eligible to be an Opener, or a Link.

When you begin to chain attacks, each step in the chain makes the card played before it a Reaction if it were an Action.  Only the last card played in a chain is considered an Action - therefore, any abilities that modify attack actions only affect the final card in your chain.

Chain attacks are played continuously until finished.  Once started, you play through until the final attack in the chain is resolved.  If the darkness would be triggered via AP usage mid-chain, you finish the entire attack chain, trigger the darkness, and any excess AP caused by your chain is applied after the Darkness AP is reset to zero.
(If the Darkness AP was at 5, and your chain was 2AP, the Darkness would trigger when the chain is completed, the Darkness AP would reset to zero, then move to 1 AP)


Every card can be played as a singular actions.
Openers can be followed by Finishers.
Links may only be used between an opener and a Finisher.

Here is a diagram of eligible attacks:



Links:

Link attacks are what make the Brawler class tick.  Although capable of single card attacks, or chains of Opener > Finisher, the Links are what make the Brawler efficient.

Most cards will grant a bonus when played as a link - oftentimes this will be a lower AP cost.
Link cards are played on top of opener cards - this basically frees up one Action slot as a -1 Threat sink during the refresh phase.
In many cases, these two bonuses together make the Link a "free" attack for the Brawler.

This picture shows how an Opener > Link > Finisher Attack Chain would be played on the hero board.



Breakdown of a Chain attack:

As stated above, only the last card played in an Attack Chain is considered an Action. Cards added to a chain make the previous card a reaction.

Opener > Finisher would be Reaction > Action
Opener > Link > Finisher would be Reaction > Reaction > Action.
Abilities that affect Attack Actions only affect the last card played in an Attack Chain.

Cards in an attack chain are resolved before the next card is Added to the chain.

For the purpose of popping treasure, the entire attack chain is considered 1 attack.

For the purpose of Fate Recipes, the entire attack chain is considered 1 attack (cannot use the same fate recipe twice in one chain).

Your base of 2 movement points may be used before the chain, after the chain, or at any point between resolved cards in a chain.

MP1 > Jab > MP1 > Lunge > Hammer would be an example of eligible movement.


Attack Types:

Punch - Uses the base 2d10, plus dice on equipped fist weapon. Punch attacks require use of Fist weapons/bare hands.
Kick - Uses the base 2d10. Kicks will oftentimes have an extra 1d10 on one of the movement types. Does not get a bonus from, nor can they use the fate recipes from equipped weapons.
Force - Uses the base 2d10. Does not get a bonus from, nor can they use the fate recipes from equipped weapons.  Force moves are generally feats of strength, or attacks that do not specifically involve the hands or legs.

When an attack is labeled as a Punch, and you have a Fist Weapon in your mainhand and offhand, you may choose which to use for the attack.  Fate recipes can only be triggered 1x per chain, however, so keep this in mind if using the same weapon multiple times in a chain.


Styles:

Ongoing effects that generally give benefits to a style of play, or a particular type of attack. You may only have one Style active at any one time. You may clear them freely. When a Style is played and you have one active already, the old Style is discarded.

Momentum:

Keyword on some cards. If your character's total spaces moved is equal to or greater than the Momentum number at the time the attack roll is made, the bonus listed is applied to the card being played.

Fist Weapons:

Needed for Punch Attacks.  Some fist weapons are listed as mainhand (weapon icon), some are offhand (shield icon). When using a punch attack, you choose which weapon to use for that attack.
Mainhand weapons are generally more offensive, offhand typically offer a passive bonus.

The fist weapons may be used by other classes, but may be weaker than what is available to them - they are generally a 1d10 behind comparable swords, etc. (since the brawler has a 2d10 base, he is going to be more efficient at using fist weapons).  Offhand fist weapons may be equipped by other classes as well. They may not be able to use them to attack, but they can benefit from the passive bonus. 

Currently, as Archer needs the quiver, Apprentice Focus, and Acolyte Relic, and Soldier Shield, the Brigand may be the only class interested in using an offhand Fist Weapon.


FAQ:

Can you use cards just for movement?

Lunge, Hammer, yes.  Shoulder Charge can be used to Move 3 squares in a straight line that contain no enemies.

Can you use the skills without using the movement?

You can use Hustle without using the extra MP. It still makes your movement aggressive. Lunge, Hammer, and Shoulder charge require the movement to be eligible for the bonus or attack. This is both for thematic reasons, as well as making positioning/choosing your moves a bit more interesting.

Do Sweep and Haymaker hit the exact squares pictured?

The card only shows the required pattern. The Brawler will turn/position himself as needed for maximum effect.  You only need to pick 2 squares that are orthogonally adjacent to you and diagonally adjacent to each other -- you can attack the North and East squares, the South and West, The South and East, or the North and West. But not North and South, or East and West.



More to follow.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 12:14:37 PM by CarelessOpossum »

Oileta

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Re: Custom Hero Class: Brawler
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2014, 12:55:03 PM »
cool! so the work computers won't let me see your images, but following your text explanation, the idea is very interesting. how many ongoings would you have? It just seems like if you have too many you won't have room for 3 card combos, and since you are describing this as needing the combos to be competetive, I think that is important. also, in terms of footgear, would that be an 'accessory'? I currently have the hardest time with picking which accessory I want. All  of the other slots are more like no-brainers (at least so far). Meaning that I don't know if I would like an almost mandatory footwear taking up my accessory slot because of the other awesome stuff available. Also, your journeymen could be 'monk' and 'berserker'

also a thought, what if you have a 'buff' card that is a reaction, 0 AP, and allows you to keep two cards during the hero deck phase? that way he can build up his combos if he wants.

random card idea (keep in mind i can't see your images): link attack [action//reaction, 1AP] +1 target for [finisher] that is adjacent to original target with damage equal to damage of [finisher]

this also sounds like he will have a hard time managing threat, unless he is taking every other turn to cool off/gather the right combo cards. I don't know if you want a buff card to help address that. That doesn't necessarily mean force the threat lower, it could give bonuses. possible ideas include:
[reaction, 0AP] +1 bonus damage to [opener] if threat is 4 or higher.
bellowing yell [interrupt, 1AP] All monsters take a courage test to attack. +1TN if threat betwen 3-5. +2TN if threat is 6 or higher.
explosive temper [reaction, 1AP] add 2 threat immediately. +1D10 to attack actions and reactions (meaning each of the combo attacks) this turn. +1FD if threat is 3-4, +2FD if threat is 5, and +3FD if threat is 6 or higher [or do base 1FD, threat 3-4 +1FD, threat 5 +1FD and +1D10, threat 6 or higher +2FD and +1D10]
[opener, action//reaction, 1AP] 1 damage attack; -1TN if threat 3-5, -2TN if threat 6 or higher
some of these might be better as upgrade/journeyman cards because they could massively direct style of play. Also, some of the ideas I have described parallel how many cards get bonuses depending on movement amount, so I would keep those cards simple with either yes/no for moevement, not additional bonuses that can then add on top of the threat bonuses.

LOVE your stuff!



Granite26

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Re: Custom Hero Class: Brawler
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2014, 01:17:44 PM »
On the face of it, it looks like the combos will be a little AP heavy.  Might need to consider a 'cards played as openers get -1AP' rule.

CarelessOpossum

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Re: Custom Hero Class: Brawler
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2014, 01:28:03 PM »
The two ongoing types are stances and grapples.  I had already established a limit of 1 stance at a time in my head, and grapples cancel stances -- and you can't play cards until you cancel the grapple.

So really, one ongoing should be it at any given time - I need to call this out on the cards (this is why I post things for people to look over). I think multiple ongoings needs to be an Apprentice thing.

I think there are going to be turns like every other class to where you can't really do a ton-- maybe take a single damage swipe at something if you want to.  I suppose by what I meant for "needing the chains" to be competitive, is that you would need to pull one off to match cards like harvest of bones, etc, in terms of power, single attacks wont get you there.  I wouldn't expect it to happen all of the time.

The "keeping 2 cards" thing to set up a chain might be a good use for the non-combat action card - like the one that the soldier uses to search his deck for a card.

I've thought of additional lines to some attacks (say lunge) that give -1AP or something only when used as a Link move. I have concerns about AP usage being too high when stringing together a 3-attack chain.

Threat may also be an issue. It may be a self-balancing thing as well like when playing the apprentice, who often has few slots open during refresh. The Brawler, I think, is going to be able to be explosive at times, but, like the apprentice, you aren't going to be able to do it every turn (due to lack of cards, or needing the threat to drop a little). The apprentice can blow up his ongoings to get relief-- maybe the brawler needs something extra, too.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 01:31:03 PM by CarelessOpossum »

Granite26

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Re: Custom Hero Class: Brawler
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2014, 03:39:55 PM »
I'm very amused by the possibility of a character who's really good at popping treasure being unable to use most treasure himself.

Oileta

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Re: Custom Hero Class: Brawler
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2014, 04:46:43 PM »
hey, so when I opened the updates I could see your images. Very cool. I noticed that every card says 'yes' to every movement status. Is that intentional? I imagine this guy is very mobile, so that may be what you are going for. how many hustle/sprint cards are you envisioning for the deck? also, all the cards that give movement, will those be 'do not count as move'? you made me think that it would be cool to flip the norm on its head: what if this guy has fewer restrictions the more he moves and more bonuses the more he moves. Then, all those cards you made like hammer falling and shoulder charge DO count as movement so that way you can rack up the movement. Thematically speaking, I envision the brawler gaining momentum and speed to perform some damage attacks, so it is in his advantage to be on the move. That may mean there are certain cards he CAN'T play if he is stationary or moved cautiously.

Or, on another vein, if you intend for all movement to be a yes and no bonuses or restrictions based on movement, you could open up that real estate for something else. I was thinking, in regards to some of my own suggestions, that you could have a place for 4 tiers of threat level [0-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7+] and have those either dictate bonuses or restrictions. Given that you didn't respond to those ideas, I assume you were thinking of taking this character in a different direction, which is just fine.

CarelessOpossum

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Re: Custom Hero Class: Brawler
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2014, 05:27:01 PM »
The yes under all movement types is just a placeholder - I figured in terms of character design, it would be easier to save that part for last, get a functional deck, and perhaps use those to tweak balance in individual skills after some playtesting. I do like the idea of more movement being better for this character - I too envisioned him as a mobile, momentum based fighter.

Like you suggested -- the threat based modifiers are probably something better suited for a journeyman class. I think the combos and stuff are going to be different enough for a novice class.

Yeah, the accessory slot is probably not something easily given up for a class specific item. May have to scrap that idea and only do fate attacks on punches.

Oileta

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Re: Custom Hero Class: Brawler
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2014, 06:02:26 PM »
okay, gotcha. I am trying to get a feel for what you are going for (since this is YOUR project, after all) and help you get there. I think projects like these necessarily need one decision maker. I think that is why our chats about introducing foraging/fishing/mining/scavenging kind of died down: too many cooks.
so, I will keep in mind something that works better with additional movement. then if there are any hustles, that is good, but sprints (taking up the action slot) would be less desirable, but maybe starting the deck with one (with an obvious card to be replaced ASAP) wouldn't be bad.
also, if you have been following some other card rules discussions, you will need to clarify if you can use your attack cards just for their movement component if so desired. MCG has said you can use the Archer't tumble just for movement if desired, as an example.

since I envision him being in the middle of a bunch of minions, surrounded, it could be cool to have some cards that function like a martial arts attack, where you can throw one minion into one on the opposite side of you.

also, what items are you thinking of? if you are thinking non-sharp weapons, the starting dual weapons could be like 'oven mitt' and 'strips of rag'. then the obligatory adventurer's garb. the one thing that makes me sad is i imagine he will eventually need to start using some pointy weapon in at least the primary hand based on what already exists. the secondary hand is usually unique to a character anyway, so that is not as big of a deal to have that be idealized for the brawler. Or do you always envision him with a sharpened weapon in the primary slot?

thesigma

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Re: Custom Hero Class: Brawler
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2014, 08:30:58 PM »
Just a quick couple of things I noticed,

The Shoulder Charge card says "cannot move again this Hero Cycle" but the Lunge card, and your description of how the combo would work, says you can. This strikes me as inconstant.

While using the phrase "this does not count as a movement" for lunge might be helpful and might be worth adding anyway, I don't think it gets around Shoulder Charge's absolute statement. I'd suggest changing the language to something like "may not spend MP after playing this card." I think this gets around the problem of moving with your general movement points after the attack, which is what I believe your intent was, while still being allowed to move with cards.

As for your grapple cards, I don't know if we know enough about bosses, mini-bosses, or agents to balance them now. Being able to hold down someone like Yardu is incredibly powerful at 1 AP, which we really don't have precedent for. The closest thing I can think of would be the Brigand Card that halves MP. Further, I believe bosses are immune to most status effects like captured, which your grapple cards are approximating. This suggests, although wouldn't require, some immunity to this kind of card.  As for agents, again, I don't think we really have enough info yet to really balance such a card yet.

By and large I think this is an interesting character design. It reminds me of the assassin from Guild Wars. I've been working on my own weaponless fighter, but he works quite differently than this. I'd love to have access to your template though. I especially like your idea for interrupts.

If I can think of anything else I'll be sure to add it.

CarelessOpossum

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Re: Custom Hero Class: Brawler
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2014, 11:55:51 PM »
Thanks for the feedback, all. Definitely some food for thought.

I think I will just ditch the whole "cannot move" clause on cards, and balance them with the usual movement icons on the side of the card.  I want this character to be fairly mobile, though some moves aren't going to make sense in this regard, and will probably have penalties for doing so.  At this point, I don't see the harm in being able to use cards as movement without the attack, so I'll add that.

Will most likely have hustle-type cards, but probably flagged as an opener move in this deck as well.


The grapple stuff, yeah, I dunno.  I just threw a basic idea out there - it may not be feasible.  As listed, you only have a 10% chance to keep a grapple on a boss, a 30% on an agent/miniboss, 70% on a captain, and 90% on a minion.   Hard to say if this is balanced or not. The main thing is that it stops movement. In cases like the choke hold, they could still take a swipe at anyone in range.  Maybe mini-bosses and Bosses are immune to the non-movement as well, and just drag you along with them. Who knows. Could also just do one-shot type moves with them instead of ongoing, but I wanted them to be something a little unique.  I kinda envisioned the "monk" journeyman going the way of more chains, etc, while the brutish "gladiator" type would be more about big hits and grapples.

Weapons - I'd rather not have the class using swords, as it kinda breaks what I would like it to be - a hand-to-hand combatant. This means that I would need to create a variety of fist weapons to go with the character to be put in the treasure deck -- I suppose this wouldn't be a terrible thing, and not that different from the archer requiring a bow and quiver to be useful, the apprentice needing a focus, etc.  I love the idea of oven mitts for the starter equipment.

Playing off of Oileta's statement:  "Thematically speaking, I envision the brawler gaining momentum and speed to perform some damage attacks, so it is in his advantage to be on the move."

I was thinking of a keyword to put on some of the moves - Like Hammer Falling.

Momentum 5 (bonus) = If your character has moved at least 5 squares by the time you roll for this attack, you get whatever bonus is listed.

And the template I have is an absolute nightmare of a mess and probably not usable by anyone except myself- I'm fairly disorganized when it comes to photoshop and keeping it cleaned up. If I get it cleaned up at some point, I'll try and share it.

CarelessOpossum

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Re: Custom Hero Class: Brawler
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2014, 12:37:34 AM »
So, now, with 3 revised cards:






Apologies for the hugeness, I forgot to resize before saving as .jpg  Easier to read this way, anyhow.

With your base 2 movement, the 1 movement from lunge, and the 1 movement granted from Hammer Falling, you are going to hit the movement threshold to trigger the +1D10 bonus.

Do you feel that the base 2MP needs to be spent before or after the chain, or should you be able to use the 2MP between individual attacks? The latter opens up more options.

You could, Use 1 MP, Front kick a minion, use 1MP, Lunge, and drop a 3 damage Hammer on something 3 squares away.
You could, Use 2 MP, Lunge, Front kick for 2 damage, then Hammer something 2 squares away for 2 damage.

etc, etc.

Not to state the obvious, but you're not going to be pulling chains of 3 off all day long- requires 3 of the appropriate cards, you only get 5 cards a turn, 25 in your deck...

CarelessOpossum

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Re: Custom Hero Class: Brawler
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2014, 11:55:34 AM »
Some edited cards.  I think I am going to ditch the grapple thing and focus on the combo mechanic - not a lot of room to play around in a 25 card deck.


Oileta

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Re: Custom Hero Class: Brawler
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2014, 05:36:07 PM »
so it looks like you have been busy. I really love prepare and improvise. I think challenge should be changed. I think you should make challenge and interrupt card and have wording basically saying that 1 target monster must move toward the brawler as if the brawler had target priority. Then you can not worry about the wording about being able to use interrupt cards.unless you mean for the brawler to be able to use interrupt cards during the hero cycle. But since challenge is currently an action that might be a little difficult.

Oileta

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Re: Custom Hero Class: Brawler
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2014, 05:40:00 PM »
I know you have not been working on those details but I think hammer falling must cost t2o APbecause it does to damage. Also with the lunch card do you have to use the movement?

Oileta

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Re: Custom Hero Class: Brawler
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2014, 05:47:12 PM »
obviously I have not seen your entire deck but I do not think you should have all openers and links be both I think that breaks the difficulty of producing a three card combo. I was also under the impression that you wanted to have link attacks that would do damage on their own. Right now I am having a hard time understanding how you will kill 3 minions in one turn