Author Topic: How many minions do I need?  (Read 3658 times)

MythMaster

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How many minions do I need?
« on: March 19, 2015, 06:06:41 PM »
During the current kickstarter (and during the first) a lot of backers and potential backers wanted to know how many minions you need to play myth.  It's a good question.  The answer is...it depends.  Fortunately, we don't have to leave it at that.  It depends on what you want to use your minions for.   Lets take a closer look at how minions are typically placed and spawned, and from that, we can get our answers as to how many we need.

Hunting Packs
This is actually the easiest case.   Hunting packs spawn between 3 and 8 monsters.  You can adjust within that range to balance the challenge for your party.  Some tiles (6x6, 12x12, 4x12, and 24x12) can have two hunting packs.  So there are two takeaways here.  Minions are useful with as few as 3 models, since that allows you to add them in as small hunting pack.  On the other end of the spectrum, if you want to run 2 maximum sized hunting packs of the same monster, you need 16 models.   There is no requirement to run 2 maximum sized hunting packs of the same monster type, so it's purely a matter of choice.

Lairs
Lairs get a little bit trickier.  You have two main elements factor into your number of required minions, and then some special cases.
1) Initial Spawn - A large percentage of your spawn is going to come when the lair is placed on the table.  Each monster type has a number of minions that spawn with the lair, with adjustments based on the number of heroes you have in the game.  The largest spawns come with 5 player games, so I'm going to quote those numbers.  (Most minions spawn 1 less for each hero lower, so 2 heroes will spawn 3 less than the numbers I'm using.  Note I said most...elementals have a fixed amount.)
Crawlers (bugs): 10
Grubbers (orcs): 9
Shamblers (skeletons): 8
Tailless (Ratmen): 10
Iathi (Elementals): 4
Sycline (Cyclopses): 9

Note, we don't know the spawn numbers for any of the new races, but it is unlikely that they will spawn in greater numbers than Crawlers and Tailless.

2) Darkness Phases
Additional minions spawn at each lair when the darkness activates.  These numbers are not adjusted based on the number of players.  Each time the darkness activates, more minions will spawn.  The assumption is that the heroes should be able to kill minions as fast, or faster than they spawn, but I always feel you should be prepared for a batch to spawn before the heroes are able to kill any.  For normal spawns, you'll get the following:
Crawlers (bugs): 4
Grubbers (orcs): 3
Shamblers (skeletons): 4
Tailless (Ratmen): 4
Iathi (Elementals): 3
Sycline (Cyclopses): 3

So adding these two numbers together for each race gives you:
Crawlers (bugs): 14
Grubbers (orcs): 12
Shamblers (skeletons): 12
Tailless (Ratmen): 14
Iathi (Elementals): 7
Sycline (Cyclopses): 12

In most circumstances, this should be enough to run a lair of a race.

3) Special Cases
There are some things that will quickly modify these numbers and you want to be prepared. 
A) Reenforcing Spawns - Some darkness deck include cards with reenforcing spawns.  In addition to the extra minions placed at the lair, 4 additional minions enter from the edge of the tile.  To be prepared for this, you'll want to have some spares.
B) Regeneration - Shamblers regenerate when soulless are in play, which can slow down the rate you kill minions.   It's only a 1/6 rate, but it's something to be aware of when expecting to kill shamblers to free up models.
C) Call of the Lesser - For each Mucker on the board, the spawn rate for grubbers is +1.  I'd recommend being prepared for 2 muckers, raising the Grubber spawn rate to 5.  (This won't happen most of the time, but it's nice to be ready when it does.)

There are other things that can affect spawns as well (Rat King!), but those are the most common cases.  Even with those adjustments in special cases, 20 should be enough to run a lair of any of the known monster groups, and most should take less. 

Why do people want so many?
Having more than 20 is all about options.  "Double lairs" is a term that gets thrown around a lot.  In short, it means running two lairs of the same kind of creature on a single tile.  If having this option is important to you, then you need to double the lair number (meaning you may want as many as 40 minions of a single type.)  For most people, this is not something that they would want to do, and it is certainly not necessary or required.

A similar case adding things above.  What if I want two max hunting packs and a lair?  With the highest numbers, this means you would want 36 models.  Once again, this is an extreme case, and it isn't a requirement.  Lairs can be one monster type with hunting packs being another...and you likely won't want maximum models in your packs when they are with a lair.

What if you are really insane?  Double lair + 2 max packs is 56 models in the extreme case.  If you want to do that, more power to you.  Not many players would want to field this many of a single minion type, but it is possible.

Conclusion
20 models of a minion should be more than enough to run either a single lair or a double hunting pack.  You may not be able to do both at once, but you shouldn't have to either.  If you want to open up more options, more minions can be useful for extreme cases, but 20 should get you through 95% of the time.

The Catch...
We don't know the spawn rates and number of minions per lair on any of the new types of creatures.  Are they built with a power level to make them similar to the elementals?  If so, 10 may be enough to run a lair, and 20 just gives you a bunch of cushion.  Being that these are likely stronger creatures coming out this time around, chances are good that at least some of these creatures will be at the lower end of the spawn rates.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2015, 09:57:30 AM by MythMaster »
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Warsong

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Re: How many minions do I need?
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2015, 08:06:04 PM »
Have you listed this site on the new ks? I noticed many new players making comments and asking questions.
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MythMaster

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Re: How many minions do I need?
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2015, 09:34:41 PM »
The question was coming up a lot in the KS.  I wrote it so that I (and anyone else who wants to) can answer the question with a link.  I've linked it once in comments.
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Sjeng

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Re: How many minions do I need?
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2015, 04:23:54 AM »
thanks for the breakdown! (you're missing a ] at the bold letters)
Guess I'm picking up the extra Syclops pack, as KS1 got me 10 minions.  ::)
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Jude

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Re: How many minions do I need?
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2015, 07:38:25 AM »
Very well written reference info.  Thanks!

Yamato

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Re: How many minions do I need?
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2015, 11:05:34 AM »
Just some quick notes,...... there are fringe,.... and not-so-fringe cases to consider as well,....

I'll call out one quest inparticular (and this may change with the redone quests, but a good example for now):  The Reckoning

It calls specifically for a 12x12 tile with 2 Grubber lairs,... then a Dark Warrior(soldier token) surrounded by 4 Muckers!

So to start; you've already got 18 Grubbers and 4 Muckers from the get-go!  (if you had a base game,. you are already don't have enough to start the tile,.... and if you have a Captain pledge,... you only have three extra grubbers!)

Now if you are REALLY unlucky; lets say that the soldier (who can basically auto-kill a Mucker every refresh phase) only kills one Mucker, and your party moves to attack the Grubbers and Lairs,....

Darkness Cycle goes,.... and a Normal Spawn is now 6 from each lair instead of just 3,..... and heaven forbid that you end up with something even worse:

Normal:  6 Grubbers from each lair (12G total)
Heavy:  5 Grubbers and one Mucker from each lair (10G, 2M total)
Deadly:  2 Muckers from each lair (4M total)
Reinforcing:  6 Grubbers from each lair and 4 on tile edge (16G total)

you can see pretty quickly how this can get out of hand,..... which is why I have a personal minimum of 30/6 for (which still does not account for some of this (like having 7 Muckers (with the Deadly Spawn in that example)on the board,..... lord save us!)

binarysunrise

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Re: How many minions do I need?
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2015, 11:45:04 AM »
Now, from the opposite perspective...

I think I'm reducing down to 15 minions per race (from 20), 10 minions of elementals, and a single sculptured lair. I don't think I need to fit each and every possible scenario (plus I'm leaning more towards the module style of gameplay)

Besides this helping my pocketbook, it also frees up space (they *might* fit in the box now), *and* means I might actually be able to paint everything one day.

So then....how many Captains do I need :P

Granite26

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Re: How many minions do I need?
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2015, 04:06:15 PM »
Can we sticky this already?

MythMaster

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Re: How many minions do I need?
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2015, 05:15:56 PM »
Sticky is done.  I figured most of the board isn't getting much posting, so it wouldn't push down much.

I absolutely agree there are cases that would come up from time to time.  That's why I made the recommendation that should work 95% of the time.  Most people will be willing to make due in those 5% cases.

Now me...I'm going double minion + double modules so that I should be able to cover 99.9% of the time.
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